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Campus "Unrest" demonstrations and consequences, 1970-1971

1971-11-12 American Report: Review of Religion and American Power Page 17

AMERICAN REPORT, 13-S

[Cont. from p. 12-S]

inform or give a new dimension in any way for you to such a gap?

Mr. Krause: My daughter would say things and being older and with my dogmatic approach I would say, "You're wrong" And because I said it was wrong, it just had to be wrong. I' a very dogmatic person. She was a very dogmatic person. And when we had discussions on the subject I would shut her off. Yet I knew she was right, nad I wouldn't communicate this to her - to tell her she was right - and that's a mistake that I made. 

Mrs. Schroeder, did the tragedy at Kent State help you understand that gap or did it make you become a part of it?

Mrs. Schroeder: I think I understood it even before that, Bill was also dogmatic. Being an R.O.T.C. student and being as liberal minded as he was, I was aware of the conflict within him. But my own attitudes were focused very clearly. 
For example, approximately four to six weeks before he died - it was a Saturday night - he was home, he had a date and he came out prepared to leave. He was dressed in his denim jacket, old jeans, worn out track shoes his hair was combed, he was bathed, and his teeth were brushed as always. He had dated the girl off an on for approximately eight months. I said "She must not be a very nice girl to go out with someone who looks like you," He didn't answer but turned around and went back to his room, came out with a shirt, a sweater, good slacks, good shoes and a suede jacket, He said. "Now does this make her a better girl?" So I knew then that the next time I should at least think before i talk . 
But the conflict that was in Bill was probably stronger than in others because he had taken the R.O.T.C scholarship knowing that he could be a good soldier. He was at least second, possibly first in his class. He had the highest position in the R.O.T.C of any sophomore, But still we did know of the conflict. We know that 20 minutes before he died he was talking to his R.O.T.C counselor about the future of the R.O.T.C at Kent, and whether or not he would have to transfer to another college, in order to stay in school. He could not get out. He had to stay in the R.O.T.C. or be a deserter. So when, the Cambodian incursion came we too talked to him the night before he died and he said, "Will you stand by me no matter what I do," and I said, "Yes" He said "I can see that you are fighting for composure" I said, "Not really" I told him that this time you know for yourself what is right for you. 
His friends have said he didn't throw stones. Whether he did or didn't has nothing to do with the case. The National Guard stood there as jury and executioner and I think more or less, that that act proved that the kids are right. There's no doubt about it. 

Would you want to reflect on the generation gap Mrs. Scheuer?

Mrs Scheuer: Before this happened I thought that all boys with long hair and girls wearing blue jeans were hippies, and I couldn't accept this. And Sandy wore blue jeans when she came home and I always told her I never like them. But after this happened, I just accept them all. I think they're right. 

Mr SchuerL I think we both are very conservative, and we looked down at the younger generation - the way they looked and the way they dressed. But now I realize that the younger generation is much less materialistic than we are, and they are more idealistic, and I admire them for the way they are. And I don't look down on them if they want to have long hair and if they want to show their individuality. In fact, I left my hair grow longer too. I think they will bring us to a better understanding of the rest of the world. 

Steven Sindell: I have a particular vantage point in a way because I am just under 30 and at the same time I live and work in a generation which is older. I deal with oldder men in the judiciary all the time. At the same time, I have one foot in the younger generation because it hasn't been all that long since I've been a student. And as I looked at it, what shocked me most was that students were classified by the older generation in a collective kind of way. That the label becomes a signification of something general by virtue of indicia on the outside: how you dress, how you act, and sometimes the mere fact that you're a student will lead to overt generalizations of a sweeping nature among large numbers of the public. I think that that is true in the case of other minority groups like blacks and Indians. 
I think that students have now qualified as a fullfledged minority group against which a considerable amount of prejudice has been directed by the older  generation and the majority of people. The truth of the matter is that students as a group are neither the salvation nor the downfall of the country. They are simply one group in the country which has, for peculiar and justifiable reasons, different attitudes about the way things should be. Some of those attitudes are right some of them are not right. But as I see it, the Kent issue focuses in on the fact that students are looked at as a kind of collective generality. The mere fact that they are students and objecting somehow, in the minds of too many, justified their being shot, and it seems to me that what we have to do is get over this notion of judging people by categories rather than as individuals. We forget that we are talking about lives, human beings, who are no longer alive today. 
If this case ever comes to trial, what is most important in terms of the facts is that we will be forced to rid ourselves - at least the legal system will force us to rid ourselves - or the collective judgment about students in general and to focus in on specific individuals and specific instances that took place. 

The students gathered on the Commons that spring day presumably because they felt that something very basic was wrong with out society and implicitly ( or perhaps not so implicitly_ with our national leadership. The Cambodian invasion had just been launched Jackson State was to follow soon after, and Nixon and Agnew were eulogizing the "Silent Majority" Prior to May 4, 970 to what degree would you say you fit more or less, into Nixon's "Silent Majority" and how have you sensibilities and politics changed since then?

Mr. Scheuer: I'm ashamed to admit that I was a member of the Silent Majority . After the events, our lives were changed and so were our opinions. I think that the majority of the people, especially the middle age group are in favor of the shooting because of a jealously caused by their inability to go to college during the depression years. 
They did not have the opportunities to go to college; they had to work hard to build something. and they are afraid that the college students would tear it down and would take away from them the little bit they had built up. That's why they are in favor of the shooting. That's why their hate and their fear of the future focuses on the students. 

Mr. Krause, were you a member of the Silent Majority?

Mr Krause: I was silent outside my own circle of friends. But among friends we discussed this and discussed it very strongly. But I didn't really speak out I was a person who lived in Cleveland, in Washington, in Pittsburg...

Would you say you were cautious then in terms of all this?

Mr Krause: No the problem I had was that once I left Cleveland. I was no longer part of my real community because I was bouncing about every second or third year. There's a lot of this going on in this country right now so in Cleveland I was interested in politics, but when I left that base then i had to create another base. I never created the other base because I was moving on to something else. And I think this has happened to a lot of corporate Americans in particular. So I didn't speak out in the voting place the way I used to speak out in the voting place - which I think is quite important. 

Mrs Schroeder, would you say you and your husband were members of the Silent Majority?

Mrs. Schroeder: We couldn't have really afforded to be. We had two children in college with different - well they were almost like they were students from two different families. They were that different in their political attitudes. And living with Bill you could not be silent; even within yourself he prodded you constantly about keeping your philosophy up to date. 
Getting back to blaming the students: I think that for a lot of people in America, when the kids were shot at Kent, it was the same as getting revenge for the bombings in Wisconsin, or damage that was done any place where there ave been bombings by any students. They were shooting the Weathermen, they were shooting members of S.D.S. our four were symbolic - or the 13, lets put it that way - were symbolic of all the destruction that had come about. They think now that because of those shootings it has stopped everything and that justifies the killing in their mind. "Well we've killed four but look at all that we've saved since then."
[Cont p 14-S, Col. 1]

Mrs. Martin Scheuer
Martin Scheuer
Steven Sindell

Saving...

AMERICAN REPORT, 13-S [Cont. from p. 12-S] inform or give a new dimension in any way for you to such a gap? Mr. Krause: My daughter would say things and being older and with my dogmatic approach I would say, "You're wrong" And because I said it was wrong, it just had to be wrong. I' a very dogmatic person. She was a very dogmatic person. And when we had discussions on the subject I would shut her off. Yet I knew she was right, nad I wouldn't communicate this to her - to tell her she was right - and that's a mistake that I made. Mrs. Schroeder, did the tragedy at Kent State help you understand that gap or did it make you become a part of it? Mrs. Schroeder: I think I understood it even before that, Bill was also dogmatic. Being an R.O.T.C. student and being as liberal minded as he was, I was aware of the conflict within him. But my own attitudes were focused very clearly. For example, approximately four to six weeks before he died - it was a Saturday night - he was home, he had a date and he came out prepared to leave. He was dressed in his denim jacket, old jeans, worn out track shoes his hair was combed, he was bathed, and his teeth were brushed as always. He had dated the girl off an on for approximately eight months. I said "She must not be a very nice girl to go out with someone who looks like you," He didn't answer but turned around and went back to his room, came out with a shirt, a sweater, good slacks, good shoes and a suede jacket, He said. "Now does this make her a better girl?" So I knew then that the next time I should at least think before i talk . But the conflict that was in Bill was probably stronger than in others because he had taken the R.O.T.C scholarship knowing that he could be a good soldier. He was at least second, possibly first in his class. He had the highest position in the R.O.T.C of any sophomore, But still we did know of the conflict. We know that 20 minutes before he died he was talking to his R.O.T.C counselor about the future of the R.O.T.C at Kent, and whether or not he would have to transfer to another college, in order to stay in school. He could not get out. He had to stay in the R.O.T.C. or be a deserter. So when, the Cambodian incursion came we too talked to him the night before he died and he said, "Will you stand by me no matter what I do," and I said, "Yes" He said "I can see that you are fighting for composure" I said, "Not really" I told him that this time you know for yourself what is right for you. His friends have said he didn't throw stones. Whether he did or didn't has nothing to do with the case. The National Guard stood there as jury and executioner and I think more or less, that that act proved that the kids are right. There's no doubt about it. Would you want to reflect on the generation gap Mrs. Scheuer? Mrs Scheuer: Before this happened I thought that all boys with long hair and girls wearing blue jeans were hippies, and I couldn't accept this. And Sandy wore blue jeans when she came home and I always told her I never like them. But after this happened, I just accept them all. I think they're right. Mr SchuerL I think we both are very conservative, and we looked down at the younger generation - the way they looked and the way they dressed. But now I realize that the younger generation is much less materialistic than we are, and they are more idealistic, and I admire them for the way they are. And I don't look down on them if they want to have long hair and if they want to show their individuality. In fact, I left my hair grow longer too. I think they will bring us to a better understanding of the rest of the world. Steven Sindell: I have a particular vantage point in a way because I am just under 30 and at the same time I live and work in a generation which is older. I deal with oldder men in the judiciary all the time. At the same time, I have one foot in the younger generation because it hasn't been all that long since I've been a student. And as I looked at it, what shocked me most was that students were classified by the older generation in a collective kind of way. That the label becomes a signification of something general by virtue of indicia on the outside: how you dress, how you act, and sometimes the mere fact that you're a student will lead to overt generalizations of a sweeping nature among large numbers of the public. I think that that is true in the case of other minority groups like blacks and Indians. I think that students have now qualified as a fullfledged minority group against which a considerable amount of prejudice has been directed by the older generation and the majority of people. The truth of the matter is that students as a group are neither the salvation nor the downfall of the country. They are simply one group in the country which has, for peculiar and justifiable reasons, different attitudes about the way things should be. Some of those attitudes are right some of them are not right. But as I see it, the Kent issue focuses in on the fact that students are looked at as a kind of collective generality. The mere fact that they are students and objecting somehow, in the minds of too many, justified their being shot, and it seems to me that what we have to do is get over this notion of judging people by categories rather than as individuals. We forget that we are talking about lives, human beings, who are no longer alive today. If this case ever comes to trial, what is most important in terms of the facts is that we will be forced to rid ourselves - at least the legal system will force us to rid ourselves - or the collective judgment about students in general and to focus in on specific individuals and specific instances that took place. The students gathered on the Commons that spring day presumably because they felt that something very basic was wrong with out society and implicitly ( or perhaps not so implicitly_ with our national leadership. The Cambodian invasion had just been launched Jackson State was to follow soon after, and Nixon and Agnew were eulogizing the "Silent Majority" Prior to May 4, 970 to what degree would you say you fit more or less, into Nixon's "Silent Majority" and how have you sensibilities and politics changed since then? Mr. Scheuer: I'm ashamed to admit that I was a member of the Silent Majority . After the events, our lives were changed and so were our opinions. I think that the majority of the people, especially the middle age group are in favor of the shooting because of a jealously caused by their inability to go to college during the depression years. They did not have the opportunities to go to college; they had to work hard to build something. and they are afraid that the college students would tear it down and would take away from them the little bit they had built up. That's why they are in favor of the shooting. That's why their hate and their fear of the future focuses on the students. Mr. Krause, were you a member of the Silent Majority? Mr Krause: I was silent outside my own circle of friends. But among friends we discussed this and discussed it very strongly. But I didn't really speak out I was a person who lived in Cleveland, in Washington, in Pittsburg... Would you say you were cautious then in terms of all this? Mr Krause: No the problem I had was that once I left Cleveland. I was no longer part of my real community because I was bouncing about every second or third year. There's a lot of this going on in this country right now so in Cleveland I was interested in politics, but when I left that base then i had to create another base. I never created the other base because I was moving on to something else. And I think this has happened to a lot of corporate Americans in particular. So I didn't speak out in the voting place the way I used to speak out in the voting place - which I think is quite important. Mrs Schroeder, would you say you and your husband were members of the Silent Majority? Mrs. Schroeder: We couldn't have really afforded to be. We had two children in college with different - well they were almost like they were students from two different families. They were that different in their political attitudes. And living with Bill you could not be silent; even within yourself he prodded you constantly about keeping your philosophy up to date. Getting back to blaming the students: I think that for a lot of people in America, when the kids were shot at Kent, it was the same as getting revenge for the bombings in Wisconsin, or damage that was done any place where there ave been bombings by any students. They were shooting the Weathermen, they were shooting members of S.D.S. our four were symbolic - or the 13, lets put it that way - were symbolic of all the destruction that had come about. They think now that because of those shootings it has stopped everything and that justifies the killing in their mind. "Well we've killed four but look at all that we've saved since then." [Cont p 14-S, Col. 1] Mrs. Martin Scheuer Martin Scheuer Steven Sindell